[callihan.9]

Kasey – I too think we should check our patients vitamin levels. I did not know this was part of all the labs we draw in HTC. The pt with the copper issue always makes me wonder, how many other people need a core element replenished in their body and not our treatments.

Greg — Thank you for the local listings for IV replacement. I have always heard of “banana bags” in the tropics for dehydration but never vitamin replacing iv therapy (except K & Mg)

Steph – you bring up a good point with the Vitamin C compound being difficulty to control. But I feel with all the research that could be done & what resources we have, we could come as close as possible to help our patients.

[smith.10494]

Thanks Jeff! Very interesting articles!
Knowledge gained:
I had heard of vitamin c infusions but didn’t know very much about them. I just know my father in law was seeing some quack who pushed Vit C infusions and hyperbaric chambers, so I didn’t give any credit or thought to Vitamin C.
Reading how vitamin C actually works in our bodies to inhibit tumor growth, reduce inflammation, etc just fascinated me. It actually made me want to start eating/taking vitamin C more regularly, lol. While IV may be better, oral surely has some positive effects too!
Questions raised:
Why aren’t more studies being done, especially since it has shown promise and it doesn’t seem to interfere with or have bad side effects? It really makes me question why we are so focused on making new synthetic drugs when clearly there are remedies for many ailments in nature. Which then makes be question if we should be worried about all the genetically modified foods we are eating- are they providing the “natural” vitamins and minerals our bodies need to function properly or is that modified too? Obviously, I don’t know enough about GMOs, but it does make one question.
Agree/disagree:
I agree that we need to focus on more natural interventions for all patients, but especially our cancer patients.

[smith.10494]

Michelle-I am right on board with you. It is disgusting how making money is a primary driver behind doing studies/clinical trials. Hopefully, with big pharma being more and more frowned upon, it will spur more focus toward natural and nutritional interventions (at least, we can hope!).

Greg-That is quite a price range for IV replacement. I am sure you are correct when you say insurance would likely not be on board with daily infusions, at least not until it became a standard practice instead of an alternative therapy.

[shawver.25]

Holly, It is an interesting take about GMO’s to know if our food is too processed to actually have nutrients or how beneficial they are for us? I don’t expect an answer anytime soon on this but raises the concern about them.

[blackwell.72]

1. What was the knowledge gained from the article?
Well, I have been researching all types of non-allopathic cancer treatments so I pretty much already knew about the Vitamin C – also for sepsis. I am just glad that maybe it is not as hidden/censored as it has been and maybe A LOT of people will start requesting this. We really need to get away from Profit before patient and start doing what is right and best for the patient.
2. Will the research/information in this article change or influence your practice? If so how? Since this is not an accepted treatment in the allopathic health model and that is where I work, it probably won’t influence my patient care. Outside of work however, I have and will continue to tell anyone that wants to listen about these other choices for treatment. I have recently completed a course Functional Medicine for Nursing to better help me learn a functional practice of treating the root cause of symptoms and actually helping patients to heal rather than just “put a bandaid on” w/ a prescription.

3. What other questions does the article raise about current practice?
Why aren’t we using this? However, I know because the current allopathic system is beholden to the larger pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies. If we don’t use their drugs then we don’t get all the reimbursements etc,. As long as they control everything we will never off this treatment. Just look at the sponsors of all the news and tv shows- that tells who is in control and who is making money off our current choices.
4. Do you agree/disagree with the conclusions of the author, why? I totally agree we should be using it but as far as “more research is needed” goes, that is a crutch to not give as much credit to the C and to keep it suppressed. I see articles of prescriptions that are terrible studies and some even look skewed, terrible results but they are all for those. These days, we not only have to read articles but we also have to discern if it is valid, who funds it and who profits it etc..

[blackwell.72]

Smith –
Have you researched oxygenation (hyperbaric) and the other things the “quack” gave your father in law? At this point I trust someone giving natural treatments over man made anything. Or bodies were not designed to have all this synthetic things in them, whether injected or ingested- they are designed for natural things and utilize them to the fullest extent for our good health and long life. Natural goes much deeper than just eating all natural. Most that refer to others as quacks just say that without any valid research or evidence to back it. It is so sad, as long as this continues we will never have patients before profits.

[blackwell.72]

Shawyer, and Greg
Insurance does not pay for it. I have been looking into this for personal reasons and it is very clear that insurance makes decisions and doctors make suggestions. Follow the money and it is obvious why insurance will only reimburse for certain things and not others. What they approve does not heal, they just keep patients coming back with more and more need. The profits just keep going around in one big circle. Insurance dictates everything, regardless of allopathic, functional or any other type of care. I see it with denials of scans and things our patients need but without jumping through hoop after hoop for an authorization they can’t get what the doctors says they need. Surely they would not pay for IV infusions of high dose vitamins and antioxidants. I tried to get someone to go natural for cancer treatment – she would not because insurance would not cover it. I am thinking it would cost less in the long run. Yes, there are other treatments that you can read testimony after testimony that they worked. This is a big concept for us that are trained in an allopathic system but I am glad the discussion has been started.

[gabel.164]

blackwell- Does OSU offer the class you referred to “Functional Medicine for Nursing”??

[wine.40]

What was the knowledge gained from the article. Prior to reading the articles, I was not aware of the interest and use of Vitamin C as a therapy for patients with cancer. The articles contained a lot of new information for me to digest and I found it challenging to keep my emotions and limited knowledge of how research is conducted out of the way. In the end, I absorbed information about how Vitamin C is thought to work, the possible risks to humans, and the benefits that have been observed in cancer patients who have received it in large doses. I learned that when evaluated, most cancer patients are found to have substantial vitamin C deficiencies.

Will the research information in the article change or influence your practice? No. As an exam clinic RN in the outpatient setting, it will not change how I do my job. Having spent quite a bit of time reading and further researching articles on the IV C topic, should a patient or colleague ever bring up the topic I would be able to discuss it with some degree of awareness and reason.

What other questions does the article raise about current practice? It surprised me to learn that even in the complimentary/alternative medicine arena, there does not appear to be agreement on recommended dosage. Not having pharmaceutical knowledge, I find it hard to fathom what a “megadose” of vitamin C amounts to, compared to a traditional supplemental dose. From my understanding, as long as IV C is classified as an alternative therapy by the FDA, insurances are not going to cover administration. I don’t actually know what kind of evidence is required to move it out of that classification.

Do you agree/disagree with the authors?
I agree with the opinion that high dose IV C appears to have the potential to diminish side effects from cancer therapies. I agree that high dose IV C, along with oral Vitamin C should be further researched. I wonder what it is about the results of research so far that makes high dose IV C not compelling enough for the scientific/pharmaceutical community to conduct further research.

[wine.40]

Reply to #867
Jeff – thank you so much for submitting these articles. I learned a lot. In your post you mention the history of vitamin C research and the work by Pauling on Vitamin C. I found myself wondering what was the “controversy” regarding his research and results.In my brief research, I came across information on how, at the time, many members of the medical community dismissed his take on nutritional medicine and his zealousness regarding vitamin C to treat a number of conditions. Maybe that bias continues to influence the great minds who work on these matters. I hope to find time to do a little more reading on Pauling’s work.

[wine.40]

Greg #869
Thank you for including the links to the infusion services. I took some time to look through them. I did not realize that nonprescription infusion therapy was a real thing, except for celebrities maybe. I am curious to know what an alternative medicine practitioner would charge for a Vit C infusion. I also wonder what type of a pricetag a hospital would put on a Vit C infusion. I would love to know the actual cost of the ingredients used.

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