Team Members: Lillian Nelson, Tania Velazquez, and Athena Stamos

Transcript:

Lillian: Hello everybody, welcome back to our segment! My name is Lillian Nelson, I am a third year student at Ohio State. I am majoring in zoology with a studio arts minor. 

Tania:  Hey everyone it’s Tania Velazquez. I am a freshman at Ohio State majoring in psychology with a minor in Human Rights. Stay tuned for this week’s segment! It’s a very interesting one!

Athena: Hi everyone! My name is Athena Stamos. I am a second year student at Ohio State majoring in mathematics with a minor in Modern Greek. Today on our “Yo, is this Sexist?” podcast, we’re going to be discussing double standards towards women in the media. How do you both feel about this issue?

Tania : To be honest, I never really paid attention to the double standards women go through in the media because it’s always been there so it’s seen as normal until you research it and realize it isn’t.

Lillian: I agree, we have been so used to the way women have been treated that it becomes second nature to ignore what is right in front of us. After researching the topic and seeing the countless articles that come up, it finally becomes real. 

Athena: I agree with both of you. I also didn’t realize that certain things are related to the double standard towards women. For example, an ambitious woman could be seen as being “bossy” and ultimately less likable compared to her male colleagues. Some women feel that they have to play nice, which may result in people not taking them seriously or they may appear as weak in society. 

Lillian: That topic comes up a lot when discussing workplace double standards, bosses tend to promote males who show authority and stand up for what they believe in but the females do not get the same response. You can see the authority of the males represented in the media and males through headlines of major articles and news stories. There are many instances where wives of actors are not even listed, for example the news article will say, “Ryan Reynold’s wife” instead of Blake Lively. 

Tania: I totally agree with both of you. I think one of the issues that comes with double standards is that society itself promotes it. Like Lillian said, when two celebrities become a couple or get married, it is always the female who gets labeled as “so and so’s wife” instead of being seen as just herself. It’s a constant cycle women have to go through.

Athena: I think a lot of the younger generations see this and it can start to have very negative influences on the youth. Many young people look up to these celebrities and it can affect people’s perceptions of themselves in the media, but also in life in general. 

Tania: What Athena said is 100% true! If you have ever watched celebrity interviews you can clearly tell the difference between how a female vs a male is interviewed. Males for the most part get asked about their careers, their next album etc. While females get asked about whose their new boyfriend/ potential crush is. Obviously this affects young girls who are watching these interviews. 

Lillian: Athena and Tania both bring up such good points here, celebrities really have such a strong influence on the younger generation growing up today especially with how prevalent social media is in the world right now. Female celebrities should be interviewed just the same as males, their career should matter just as much as males, but it seems as though only their personal lives are what matter to the media. 

Athena: Yeah definitely!! Do either of you have specific situations that come to mind that emphasizes this double standard in the media?

Tania: So this situation actually is brought up a lot during February every year. The infamous 2004 Super Bowl Halftime Show. As all of you might have heard or seen, Justin Timberlake performed with Janet Jackson and towards the end of the show he ended up ripping her shirt resulting in a “nip slip”. Of course, this caused a lot of controversy during that time, but now it’s being brought back up because of the double standard Janet Jackson has received from Hollywood. I’m very interested in hearing what you guys have to say about this. 

Lillian: I do know what you’re talking about Tania and the whole situation angers me because I honestly can’t imagine being Janet in that whole scenario. I think clothing brings up the biggest double standard between men and women in my opinion. With this particular situation, Janet Jackson got huge backlash for something that wasn’t even caused by her, and on top of that, Justin Timberlake got no backlash at all. I’m very curious to know what would have happened if the roles were reversed. 

Athena: I can’t imagine reliving that every February or Super Bowl. I think that is a great example, Tania. From what I’ve seen it can literally take one thing to ruin a woman’s reputation in Hollywood. And I think what’s really interesting is Justin was at fault, but Janet’s time in Hollywood ended because of that one mistake. Like Lillian pointed out, he didn’t get any backlash. I really do think if the roles were reversed, a woman would still get blacklisted. 

Tania: I know a lot of people who are probably listening to this don’t really understand how big this was for Janet. That same year, she was not allowed to attend the Grammys, got her music pulled off from streaming services and radio stations and was even forced to publicly apologize to America. Justin gained popularity from this and continued his career even though he was at fault.

Athena: And I don’t think the media helped Janet’s situation at all. 

Lillian: Wow, hearing all that really solidifies true double standards in the media, and like Athena said, I’m sure the media continuously shared the video of the incident and streamed it everywhere possible to make it go viral. 

Tania: I want to bring up what we talked about in the beginning about how double standards in the media were and are seen as normal because that’s what we have been told all our life. In this situation, I think people in 2004 probably thought Janet was in fact in the wrong because that’s what the media portrayed but now in 2021 we can see how it wasn’t the case. Similar to what we learned in class about women being labeled as “Other”. In society we have always been told that women are the “Other” so it’s hard to view ourselves (since we are women) as equals to men. It’s extremely important for young girls to grow up with a different perspective in order to erase the “othering” women experience. Representation Matters!!

Lillian: I think a lot has changed since 2004 and although the media is more prevalent in our lives, I also think that we are more aware of ourselves as women and the double standards that the media puts on us. Even though things are changing, I think it will take many more years to get rid of the “othering” concept when it comes to women unfortunately. 

Athena: I feel like the combination of media and our society creates the Othering concept as Tania was saying earlier. Unfortunately just because of our gender or how the media showcases us, females are considered as “Others.” I feel like because of the increased usage of social media and technology, a lot more people are putting more weight and pressure on themselves with these standards. I completely agree with Lillian about how it will take time to fight these double standards. Do you think that we are heading in a better direction even though social media has been a bigger part of people’s lives than it ever has?

Lillian: I think it’s almost hard to say if we’re moving in a positive direction or not. There are times where I feel we are moving in the right direction, battling double standards, and then there is another incident that takes us multiple steps back. 

Tania: I agree with Lillian, the good thing about social media is that it is very universal, anyone can say anything. So if there’s someone trying to bring a woman down, a lot of women will respond with their side of the argument. 

Athena: Yeah, I see what you both mean. I feel like the only way to know is reflecting in the future. I definitely have been noticing a trend where women are being more vocal about supporting other women which is really great to see. 

Lillian: I also have been seeing more women supporting women recently and it has been very uplifting and making me very hopeful for the future. 

Tania: I agree with both of you! Well it looks like we are running out of time! I will admit this was probably one of my favorite segments so far!

Lillian: It was so great getting to talk to you all about this topic, I can’t wait for next time! 

Athena: Yes as always! Thanks for tuning in and we’ll see you next week!

Racism is embedded in our social, political, and economic framework, for some people it is what “keeps America, America”. Some thrive on the fact that they are white or not a person of color, that this was and will always be THEIR country. But these differences and hierarchies tend to leave people of color in the dust, especially in healthcare. Members of racial and ethnic minorities are less likely to receive preventive health services and are more likely to receive lower quality of care. Minorities often feel that the quality of healthcare that they receive comes from misrepresentation of their culture, and not the reality of who they actually are. They feel as though health care providers take one look at them and treat them differently, assuming that they are less educated, poor or deserve less respect because of their race. 

There have been racial disparities in health care for many years but more recently this imbalance has been putting many racial and ethnic minority groups at an increased risk of getting sick and dying from the coronavirus. The inequalities that have been placed on minorities groups for years such as poverty and the lack of healthcare access has been affecting the health and quality of life of these individuals. The Center for Disease Control and Prevention lists multiple reasons that minorities actually have a higher possibility of exposure and death from COVID-19.

One of the first reasons the the CDC lists is discrimination. Discrimination exists all over the world but healthcare of all places should definitely not be one. Everyone deserves a chance at fair and quality healthcare. There are a wide range of sources for discrimination like age, gender, obesity, or sexual orientation but race and ethnicity based discriminations is the most common. There was actually an experiment done at the Geneva University Hospital in 2007 that tested patients opinions on discrimination during their visit with a questionnaire, the study was conducted with 1,537 adult patients. “A total of 171 (11.1%) respondents reported at least one source of discriminations. Most (93, 54.4%) reported a single cause of discrimination. The Most frequent causes of discrimination were language, age, nationality and having a disease that is viewed negatively by others.” (Hudelson, Kolly and Perneger). The study goes to show that of the non-European participants reported discriminations as language barriers, nationality, choice of religion and skin color. This collection of data helps to show that individuals who get the impression of discrimination by their health care provider receive lower quality of care than those individuals who do not.

The CDC also accounts for Healthcare access being one of the reasons minorities are at an increased risk. Individuals who are a part of a minority group might be under protected because they do not have health insurance. “Healthcare access can also be limited for the groups by many other factors, such as lack of transportation, child care, ability to take time off of work; communication and language barriers; cultural differences between patients and providers; and historical and current discrimination in the health care systems.” (CDC). A lot of groups are actually afraid to seek health care and insurance because they do not trust our current health care systems and the government. The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the African American Male still sits in the minds of some minorities which makes it very difficult for them to trust that they are actually being treated and given the same quality of care as white individuals. The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis was an experimentation to try and observe the natural history of untreated syphilis in black populations. The “subject” had been uninformed because they were told they were receiving all of the necessary treatment for bad blood, in reality they received zero treatment. This experiment started 1932 and lasted until 1972, six hundred men joined the study of scientific experimentation of syphilis. There is a long history about why and how this study started that dates all the way back to 1865, basically when Social Darwinism was on the rise along with the theory of “scientific racism”. White people thought of themselves as high-caliber than African Americans and “science and medicine was all too happy to reinforce this hierarchy”. During the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries there were phony scientific concepts stating that while the brain of an African American male was underdeveloped, their genitals were actually overdeveloped. This “scientific theory” led to this study because individuals thought Black men were seen to have an inherent deviance towards white women and all African Americans were seen as having urgent “sexual appetites”. “This all matters because it was these understandings of race, sexuality and health that researchers undertook the Tuskegee study. They believed, largely due to their fundamentally flawed scientific understandings of race, that black people were extremely prone to sexually transmitted infections (like syphilis).” (McVean). During the study, instead of observing and documenting the natural progression of syphilis, the researchers interfered with the study. They would tell the subjects that they were being treated, which was a lie, and the researchers would prevent the subjects at any cost from seeking treatment that could save their life. By the time this study was shut down one hundred twenty eight patients died of syphilis, forty of their wives have been infected, and nineteen of their children have also acquired syphilis. The long wave of distrust between minorities and the government/healthcare can cause a greater exposure risk to COVID-19 because they would not trust receiving any type of treatment for the virus. 

One of the last reasons the CDC states is education and income gaps in minorities. Some minorities do not get fair access to quality education which may lead to reduced high school graduates and less individuals going to college. Not graduating high school and/or not attending college can be shown to lead to lower paying jobs. These lower paying jobs also might not have the freedom of a flexible schedule which can prevent them from making health care a priority. These rigid working hours can cause a greater exposure risk to the COVID-19 virus and even if/when they are infected minorities cannot risk missing work because they already do not make enough money for support. 

Racism in healthcare and the sense that minorities have been at a greater exposure risk to the coronavirus follows the concept of “The One and The Other”. Minorities are always going to feel like the other in our communities and government because of the way they have been treated for centuries. White individuals feel as though they have an “upper hand” in this country. Granted, it is not all white individuals that feel and act this way but until everyone changes their mind set, African Americans and other minorities are going to feel inferior or that they come in “last place”. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5060520/table/t1/?report=objectonly LINK SHOWING PATIENTS PERCEPTION OF DISCRIMINATION.

Works Cited

Center for Disease Control and Prevention. “Health Equity Considerations and Racial and Ethnic Minority Groups”. February 12, 2021

National Library of Medicine. Patricia Hudelson, Veronique Kolly and Thomas Perneger. “Patients Perceptions of Discrimination During Hospitalization”. 

Ada McVean B.Sc.. “40 Years of Human Experimentation in America: The Tuskegee Study”. McGill, Office of Science and Society. January 25, 2019.

Podcast Transcript: 

Hi, so today we are going to talk a little bit about anti-fat bias and weight-discrimination and whether or not that is racist. So, we’re first going to start off talking about a French naturalist named George Louis Lectere, and he was a...the first scientist to note Black people as “plump, idle, and insipid”. So, he argued that external characteristics were physical markers of distinction between different types ..“types” of people…”types” in quotes..um, so basically, he viewed white people as being on top of this hierarchy that he saw in his head um, and we see there that that is very clearly um kinda showing a link between racism and anti—fatness. And that is kinda perpetuated by Ancel Keys after World War II with his creation of BMI. So, Ancel keys is a statistician who created this very unethical study. I won’t get into it too much, but ultimately what developed was the creation of BMI which um, I am sure you all are familiar with. Um, a measurement of body fat index, um supposedly. Um, but it really is not a great tool and again Ancel was a statistician, not a doctor, so there’s a lot of problems there as well. So, moving on from that, we’re gonna kinda talk about practical barriers that fat people face when accessing medical care. So, there is of course plenty of these, but there’s a few important ones to note are:  

• not having health concerns taken seriously,  
• um..having anything that is going wrong, any problem that they have—blamed on weight 
• Um, doctors making assumptions around activity levels and around eating 
• And, disregard for conditions that may contribute to weight gain 
• undiagnosed eating disorders 

Um, I think this is something that is becoming more and more of an issue or people are maybe becoming more aware of it as an issue. Um, this was my personal experience as well. So even, just being someone who doesn’t fit the perfect stereotype as..of a person with an eating disorder, mine went undiagnosed for a very long time so, this is really common that doctors just overlook diagnosis because of you know, whatever they look at with physical stereotypes. Um, and so anti-fat bias absolutely comes into play in medical practice—and I think people assume that it doesn’t. 

Um, so next we are going to talk about Black..Barrier’s that face Black People and some of those are going to overlap—probably most of them, actually will overlap.  

So, there’s gonna be difficulty accessing culturally competent doctors. So, I mean not to say their can’t be a white doctor who is culturally competent, um but most people are going to be more comfortable with a doctor they feel is going to be able to respect them and to understand them and there are a lot of white doctors who maybe are not going to be able to do that [due to white privilege] and who have be discriminatory in the past, who have you know, said something that was, you know, a microaggression. And so that hesitancy with the medical profession is already there for a lot of Black people and so a lot of people are going to be more comfortable with someone they feel more comfortable with. Um, and so, already having that limited access is going to make that process more difficult. Plus, then you’ve got insurance and transportation barriers um, and so there’s a lot of things that make taking the first step and finding a docor very difficult.  

Then, once you get in the door, you know, there’s issues with people not having their pain levels taken seriously and maybe even disregarded altogether uh, I think this is especially and issues in Black women. It’s really an issue where Black women are kinda viewed as very strong and independent and powerful and somehow that means they are void of having any pain and um, obviously that is not true, so when using something like a pain scale, it be really inaccurate or not taken seriously by doctors. Doctors can Fail to meet cultural needs. Um, and again, make vast assumptions about diet and exercise 

So, now we are gonna talk about The Conflict Between Thick and Fat which was published by Da’Shaun Harrison. And so, this basically talks about thickness and not fatness. So, thick, is used as a compliment while still denying fat people um, as a society, community, housing, employment. And, so basically this is a part of desirability politics and within this, language is a huge component of that. So fat people, have kinda as a whole have been conditioned to prefer terms like thick, big, and big-boned because so often fat is used in a very weaponized manner and you know so, even fat people are hesitant to use it. And some people are very comfortable with it and some people are not and so it’s sorta in flux for a lot of people.  

And so, then we’re gonna move on to Not all Fat Black Boys Know How to Eat. So this is kind of a personal experience for  Da’Shaun and their visit to a doctor as a fat Black child. And so they recalled the doctor questioning them about what they ate, when they ate, why they wouldn’t eat. And they recall having rejected eating because they feared getting fatter and the doctor responded–”Well, if you don’t eat, your body will assume that you’re starving itself and will make you gain more weight”. And while this may have some truth to it, it is really a problematic statement. It doesn’t really help you move beyond the fear of getting fat. It just kinda convinces you to eat to protect yourself from getting fat. Um, I was actually told this same thing in an eating disorder treatment center and um, at the time I was like “wow, this is very helpful for me”, but now looking back I am like “that is so Not helpful”. So, yeah, and then he (the doctor) was told that they could not eat like an apple because that was too small and that a salad would be too much because they’d use too much dressing and eating pizza would be too shameful to eat in front of anyone. And, they were even diagnosed with a gastro-intestinal disorder. And even that..with that, they were still criticized for their body and their weight.  

And then we move on to the next article which is Within a White Supremacist System Eric Garner’s True Crime was Being Fat and this was by Sherronda Brown. This talks about David Pantaleo and he murdered Eric Garner but ultimately was only fired—was not prosecuted for the crime. And, there were several who surrounded the case, including an NYPD Union Lawyer who is quoted as saying “he was (meaning Eric Garner) a ticking time bomb who resisted arrest. If he was put in a bear hug, it would have been the same outcome” and what was this outcome? That Eric Garner, and this is what his autopsy showed, had a fatal asthma attack which led to cardiac arrest. And so, basically Eric Garner’s weight, and his race were used against him and as the reason that he died, when realistically the reason that he died was the NY police department and this officer as well as the officers that stood around and watched and claimed that they didn’t interfere because they thought that he was “playing possum” and Representative from New York Peter King said that “If I had not had…If he had not had asthma and a heart condition and was so obese, almost definitely he would not have died from this”. You see we’ve got a lot of people who have no idea, who no medical experience or education, making a lot of very bold assumptions about Eric Garner and his experience and his health and his body that they have no grounds to make and how that this kinda really shows how linked race and fatness are and it’s not just in the case of Eric Garner, but in general in our society. They are linked both in a really broad way, and in very individual circumstances. And um, to kinda summarize, anti-fatness and anti-blackness is inherent. Both are used to dehumanize Black people. Both are used to link fatness and laziness, immorality, and low mental health status, and both are incarnations of white supremacy and eugenics.  

And that’s all I have– 

Thank you. 

References 

Brown, S. J. (2019, June 17). Within a White Supremacist System, Eric Garner’s True Crime Was Being Fat. Wear Your Voice. https://www.wearyourvoicemag.com/eric-garner-fatphobia/. 

Harrison, D. (2020, June 30). Not All Fat Black Boys Know How To Eat. Wear Your Voice. https://www.wearyourvoicemag.com/not-all-fat-black-boys-know-how-to-eat/. 

Harrison, D. (2018, June 30). The Conflict Between Thick and Fat – Da’Shaun L. Harrison. Da’Shaun L. Harrison. https://dashaunharrison.com/the-conflict-between-thick-and-fat/.

LINK TO YOUTUBE VIDEO:

Kenny Wall, Emma Bubolz, Christabel Paul

Team Members : Santosh Gajje, Manar Alrjub, Olivya Colyer

Transcript:

Manar: Hello, I’m Manar. I’m a first year student studying Education and Public Affairs at the Ohio State University.

Olivia: And I’m Olivia. I am a third year student studying International Business and Fashion also at the Ohio State University

Santosh: And I’m Santosh.I am a second year student in college of engineering at The Ohio state University, majoring in Computer Science and Engineering program.

Manar: And welcome back to today’s segment of “Yo, is this sexist?” I’m glad to have you all here. 

For today’s segment, we will focus on three different issues that have one similarity: the gender imbalance between men and women in society. We’ll explore two national issues and one international issue that all pertain to the inequality between men and women.

Olivia: We’ll start nationally. Have any of you heard of a widely-known corporation that does not offer maternity leave? 

Manar: Nope, how about you Santosh?

Santosh: Well, I don’t think any rational corporation would fail to offer maternity leave. 

Olivia: Well, right here in Ohio, Rumpke–a widely-known trash pickup service–doesn’t offer maternity leave for their female workers.

Manar, Santosh: *act shocked, offended*

Manar: No way!

Olivia: Yeah, the United States is one of 3 countries that do not require paid maternity leave. The white male dominated company is actually not required by law to offer paid maternity leave and only grants their workers FMLA. For those who don’t know, FMLA (AKA the Family Medical Leave Act) solely entails unpaid leave which means that if a woman were to give birth, fall ill, and/or have complications, she would have a job when she returns but will not be paid during her time off. 

What’s surprising is that on their website, they slap you with the words, and I quote, “We treat you like family.” right on their benefits page.

Santosh: I don’t think a “family” would treat their female members in such a way.

Manar: I don’t think so either. And you know what? This is reminding me of de Beauvoir’s concept of “the One” and “the Other.” 

Olivia: Yes, I totally see that.

Manar: Yes, it’s as if the head male members of the corporation are positioning the female workers as the Other and are placing themselves as the superior One. The male led corporation is disadvantaging the women in a way that belittles them and strips them of their worth. 

Santosh: I agree. The One in this scenario are making it more challenging than it needs to be for women to start families. The Others are being treated less than for wanting to take time to be with their newborn.

Olivia: I know, and it’s unfortunate that women are being treated as poorly as this in 2021. You would think the U.S. would have made this a law by now. It’s even more upsetting that this male over female trend occurs in other sectors of society, one including sports. 

Santosh: Yeah actually, do you know which country is most successful in terms of women’s soccer in the world cup?

Olivia: Well I usually don’t watch soccer, but my guess would be Spain. 

Santosh: Actually, it’s the United States. The women’s teams are the current world champions, received 25.4 million viewers for the 2015 Women’s World Cup final, have won 4 world cups to date, and generated $50.8 million in revenue between the years 2016 and 2018. On the other hand, the men’s stats are almost as impressive but not quite. The men’s soccer team in the United States have only been able to reach the round of 16, received only 24.7 million viewers in the 2014 Men’s World Cup, and generated over $49.9 million in revenue between 2016 and 2018. However, the skeleton in the closet is the fact that women are paid about 38% of what their male counterparts make. 

Manar: A lot of people will make the argument that women don’t receive as many viewers or generate as much revenue for their games, and that is the sole reason why they aren’t paid as much. But obviously, from what you just explained, women are earning more but are simply not being given what they earn. 

Santosh: Yup, and basically, in 2015, when America’s women’s national team won the world cup, they only received $2 million for the entire team. But in 2014, when the men’s team for the United States exited the world cup in the round of 16, they were granted $9 million for their whole team. 

Olivia: So this means that men made more money for exiting the competition in the early stages than women earned for winning it. 

Santosh: Exactly, the women’s team has to put in equal effort into the game but are not paid for their services fairly. According to Becky Sauerbrunn, in her interview with Hasan Minaj,  if the women’s team wins a match, they are paid around $1,300 dollars whereas the men earn around $17,000. If the men’s team loses they make $5000 but the women’s team doesn’t get paid anything for losing a match. Such high wage differences would deter women from being part of United States soccer teams.

The idea of this issue is resonated in Gayatri Spivak’s, “Can The Subaltern Speak?”, in which she outlines that societal groups in power usually suppress the voices of the weak. This prevents them from sharing their stories and forces all of their stories to become a single story.

Manar: I totally can see how the root of the gender wage gap is based on her theory of the subaltern. 

Santosh: Yeah, many people are exposed to the sole story that female sports are not very competitive or that they have very less viewership and therefore are prevented from enjoying the rewards they receive, i.e fair wages and a healthy winning bonus. However, as mentioned earlier, they are earning as much and more but aren’t being given access to their earnings. And this is why they have been silenced as the subalterns. 

Olivia: It’s mind blowing that these disparities are still happening in 2021 behind closed doors. 

Manar: I think so too, and actually, speaking of the suabltern, I did a little research on international cases that relate to Spivak’s concept and came across interesting findings in Saudi Arabia. 

Santosh: Saudi Arabia? How could they possibly relate to the subaltern? I have heard some great things about Saudi Arabia. Don’t they have the most-profitable company in the world?

Olivia: Yeah, and isn’t the education in their country free? 

Manar: Yes, these are all correct statements. But have you heard of the male guardianship system that runs the entire Saudi government?

Olivia: Nope, I haven’t.

Santosh: And neither have I.

Manar: Well, in simple terms, every Saudi woman must be legally assigned a MALE guardian. Even when the woman turns 18 or leaves the house, she must have a legal guardian. This male figure is her father until she marries a man at which point her husband becomes her guardian. 

Olivia: Does this mean that they take care of her or what?

Manar: Not entirely. While Saudi women do look to their guardians for care because of cultural customs and preferences, the guardian system basically acts as a way to limit Saudi women’s freedoms. Saudi women can’t be recorded as the legal guardians for their children (while their husbands are), they can’t apply for passports on their own, can’t travel without a guardian, and cannot earn a paying job without the approval of their guardian. I just think, imagine if a woman wanted to work because she has a passion or simply wants to earn money, but her father or her husband don’t approve, then the woman cannot work. It’s the man’s way or no way. 

Santosh: Wow. 

Manar: Yeah, it’s truly shocking. And you know, in 2019, because of pressure from women’s rights activists around the world, the leaders of the Saudi government passed a few reforms designed to expand Saudi women’s freedoms. These reforms stated that Saudi women can travel without being accompanied by their guardian, they are protected them from work discrimination, and are allowed to make their own decisions about their bodies as they relate to pregnancy and birth. 

Olivia: These reforms all sound progressive to me. Where does the role of the subalterns come in?

Manar: In order to understand how these women are being positioned as the subalterns, one can simply look at the newly passed reforms. Yes, on the surface, it looks as though the male guardian is being taken out of the picture. However, they all literally state that Saudi women are in need of a guardian. The only difference with the reforms is the fact that there are some tasks that women are now allowed to do on their own without the company or approval of their male guardian. But they still must have one legally. It’s as if women are incompetent on their own and must be accompanied by a male figure to perform even the simplest tasks. 

Olivia: Oh, I understand. 

Manar: These reforms are proof of positioning a group as the subalterns because it is obvious that the Saudi women were not involved in the conversation regarding the reforms. Like why, in 2021, does a woman need to be limited by a male figure or cared after by anyone but herself? And not only were the women excluded from the conversation, but they were silenced so as not to provide their input or show any disobedience to Saudi laws. 

Santosh: I totally agree. We’re all exposed to the positive aspects of Saudi Arabia and are never taught about the systemic injustices that are happening as we speak. 

Manar: Totally, and I think it’s our duty to become aware of these injustices now to help us counter them in the future. 

Olivia: And on that positive note, it looks like we’re out of time. I’m Olivia. 

Santosh: And I’m Santosh.

Manar: And I’m Manar.

Olivia: Thank you for tuning in, and we hope to have you next time on “Yo, is this sexist?”