From our interview with Officer Scott Holbert:
- How do you deal with EMS calls and roadside incidents?
Dealing with those calls is easy in big cities, where you can have 50 cops to a bad crash instantly. Since interstate systems are very busy, state troopers would be ones to talk to. Sometimes there are not a lot of troopers in more rural areas.
- What are the common procedures you use when interacting with firefighters?
Usually the fire department stands by until the scene is safe. Police tell them when to send in a squad of firefighters, especially for shootings. Cops always beat firemen to the scene since they are the ones out patrolling and are not coming from a firehouse.
Sometimes we send just police, sometimes we send both police and firefighters. For example, dumpster fires: there is a crime committed so both get dispatched. When a fire alarm sounds in a residence hall, only the fire department gets dispatched. For a down-and-out call (someone is down and not moving), we want police there first so the fire department isn’t messing up a crime scene.
There are a lot of working relationships between the fire department and police department. The fire department saves a ton of people. Sometimes egos do come into play, and it’s hard to tell who is in charge. Leaders from both divisions want to be.
- For accidents, how do you regulate traffic? Are there any tools you use to better alert drivers and keep emergency crews safe?
At a crash scene, the fire department usually controls the scene and is getting aid, and the police must regulate traffic. The fire department parks pretty much anywhere. Police have to get cars moving again and keep them moving. One of the reasons we don’t want protesters to block interstates is because usually there is a fatal crash if the interstate is blocked. For the safety of motorists and the public, it’s best to keep as many lanes moving as possible.
Everything at a crash is a crime scene, so we try to maintain as much evidence as we can. We may have a disproportionate amount of cops to firefighters at the scene. Usually there is one or two cops for 20 firefighters. We usually throw out cones and flares first, then direct traffic.
- Do you see any room for improvement for alerting drivers to a crash?
It’s important to make drivers are more aware of what’s going on.
- Are there any defined boundaries at a crash scene?
The crash site itself is one boundary, but the perimeter could be 10 miles back where the traffic is backed up. We must be concerned with the crime scene, for prosecution and other reasons, so we must fully investigate a fatal crash or a crime scene. We cannot rush to do our jobs, as evidence gets destroyed by the first 20 cars going by. Things like tire skid marks and shell casings. We must lock it down.
We could use radio, but first responders are no longer on the same station. CB radios used to be huge, but are not used a lot any more. Who gets the alert?
- Where do you put signs for accidents?
The electronic signs are very expensive. We could put signs in crash areas, but drivers usually see it as they’re rolling up to the accident and already stuck in the related traffic.
Recently, we had a running shooting, where people were actually driving along the freeway and shooting at each other. We had to block off a massive part of the freeway and look for shell casings. It all matters in order to prove a case in court.
- Are there any instances where you have had to modify a tool, or had one fail on you?
Instances like a train derailment or a hazardous material truck spilling offer some unique challenges. They don’t happen often, but you’d have to evacuate 60,000 people. That’s why flights and trains don’t go through on gameday.
On a bike, we really only have lights. We have a bag on the back, but it’s mostly clothing, handcuffs, batteries, ammunition, a flashlight, and paperwork. It’s all weight, and we must distribute it evenly. The main constraint is weight. We usually carry things that are convenient due to weather. We don’t want more, it is just too heavy.
It’s very dangerous to be on a bike. There are drunks all over, people don’t see you, you ride in the street normally, you wreck all the time, and you’re often on curbs chasing people. However, bike squads get into the good stuff, since criminals can’t see them. It’s the best PR tool we have, too. We can just talk with people. Over a 10 hour shift, I may talk to 200 people. You don’t get that in a car. We’ll get 50 good comments or “thank you’s”, and one person will do something bad. We see 50:1 ratio, which is really nice.
We can hear, smell, and see everything, and we beat most patrol cars to most calls. We can cut through yards, alleys, etc. We do run into flat tires all the time. When that happens, we take the bike to a sub station and change it, like a NASCAR pit crew. We have 12 people on bikes all year round. You always carry flares and 3-4 traffic cones in a patrol car.
- What kind of issues have you had with equipment?
Everything is a price issue, and it breaks. We have to buy new after new. This is especially a problem in law enforcement. Arrests for rapists and murderers don’t make money. People don’t see it.
There are lots of bust products that come out, new things happen that are a fad. For example, the PR24, a stick with a side handle, was the newest and greatest. We used it for a few years, but it wasn’t anything special. If you paint it black, we’ll buy it. Sprays have increased in use and are way more powerful. Tasers are a big thing, but were a little bit of a fad.
We go through a lot of different body armor. Everything changes with law enforcement. Technology in law enforcement is terrible, especially the report system. The user interface and the software looks nothing like the actual paperwork. We want to be out on street, but we must duplicate so many things. We use just as much paper as before, even though everything is supposed to be “paperless”. We know paper works. In general, we want someone like me with experience to do everything but the paperwork, then have someone else do the paperwork. You especially don’t want to sit in cars and do paperwork with people out there killing cops.
- Do intergenerational homes (grandparents, small children) cause any issues?
Intergenerational homes are very common in some populations, especially people who come to America with grandparents and kids. The language barrier causes a bigger problem than the age differences, for the most part. They’re all just people.
- What is currently available for the safety of pets?
I was bit by a dog a month ago. Cops shoot dogs sometimes, and I would have shot the dog that bit me if it would have held on. But that’s always the owner’s fault. This one was not registered, had no vaccinations, and had no insurance. It’s not the dog’s fault, just the owner’s fault. It’s always the responsibility of the owner. I don’t want to see a dog euthanized, I love dogs. I have a few of my own. In this situation, a dog got scared and bit you. The owner got three heavy citations, but it would need to be pretty bad to shoot it.
- In some of the responses we’ve gotten to the survey, we’ve seen firefighters list domestic disputes as one of the most dangerous situations they can get into. Do you agree or have any other comments?
A lot of times, firefighters show up and it turns into a domestic dispute. The most dangerous part of job though is getting hit by vehicles. I would rather get shot in the chest with body armor on than get hit by a 40,000 pound vehicle. Traffic stops are especially dangerous for this.
Cops get hurt all the time going hands on with people. It’s the human element, no two people are the same. Sometimes, alcohol and drugs involved. There are tons of guys getting hurt, but less killed. Those getting killed make the news, you don’t usually hear about injuries.
- We’ve seen that Columbus has a high infant mortality rate? Any idea why?
I’ve seen it, but I don’t know much about it. It’s getting getting higher due to the heroin epidemic. We’re starting to carry NARCAN in our bag next week. It’s only $70 per dose, so not a lot. There’s a cost, but it’s small. The cost is incomparable to saving a life.
- Do you ever run into visibility issues?
We do work mostly at night, and it’s just getting darker. Cops want to stay dark, we don’t want to be seen since we do a lot of sitting and hiding, following potential robbers, etc. We do not want to stick out like a sore thumb. Management wants you to wear neon orange and stuff like that to stick out and increase safety, but it’s really a matter of safety versus the ability to do jobs. Cops don’t like to be told what to do. We want to do the road work and make the community safe.
When we do need to be visible, we have great bike lights with sirens. They are good, but they could do better. I want to see jacket with lights that will come on at the press of a button. For example, if we had straps that light up for directing traffic. Dark where you want to be dark, visible when you want to be. I would have no problem wearing lights when you need it.
Key Points Taken Away
There are multiple areas that peaked our interest while talking with Officer Holbert. One was the idea of being visible while they want to be visible and also having the option to not be overly visible when desired. Another area that stood out was standard operations at an accident scene. The police have two responsibilities of collecting evidence (especially if it is a crime scene) and directing traffic while firefighters main responsibility is to provide aid to the victims. There are no real defined boundaries besides the emergency vehicles and traffic with other cars trying to go by is unpredictable. The final main takeaway from the interview was that people see first responders as just sucking up money and not providing anything of monetary value. What people fail to see is the safety and protection that they provide as a product. So due to this the must by the cheapest market solutions to their problems which often break extremely fast. So if we make a product to go directly to first responders it will have to be cheap and ideal more durable.