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Podcast: What we can learn from Nice White Parents: The Podcast About School Inequality in America Today

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Chloe LaGrand  0:05

Hi, everyone. Welcome to today’s episode. My name is Chloe LaGrand, and I’m your host.

Chloe LaGrand  0:12

Today I’d like to have a discussion about nice white parents, and nice white parents is a podcast miniseries. It was published in late summer of 2020. And it was published by the New York Times and Serial.

Chloe LaGrand  0:30

The New York Times describes nice white parents like this: “We know American public schools do not guarantee each child and equal education. Two decades of school reform initiatives have not changed that. But when Chana-Jaffe Walt a reporter looked at inequality in education, she saw that most reforms focused on whose schools were failing: black and brown kids. But what about who the schools are serving? In this five part miniseries, she turns her attention to what is arguably the most powerful force in our schools, white parents” end quote.

Chloe LaGrand  1:07

not surprisingly, this podcast miniseries received a lot of attention, just by its title alone, you might be able to, you know, it makes you maybe a little bit uncomfortable. And I think that’s exactly what they were trying to do with this podcast miniseries.

Chloe LaGrand  1:25

The attention that it received was mixed, both good and bad, some arguments for and arguments against what they were trying to do and portray in this podcast miniseries, and in our discussion today, I’d really like to unpack a couple of these counter arguments and agreements, and really kind of take a look at school segregation as a deeper issue in our society. And really kinda of analyze the issue itself what type of systemic injustice it really is, or if it is multiple, systemic injustices. And um really kinda of unpack what nice white parents did write, and perhaps what they what they fell short on with their podcast miniseries.

Chloe LaGrand  2:13

To start our conversation today, I’d really like to just get grounded in school segregation and the history that it has played in our country. So according to history.com, segregation is the practice of requiring separate housing, education and other services for people of color. You may be familiar with Brown v. Board of Education. This was a landmark Supreme Court case that occurred in 1954. And the Supreme Court ruled in this case that there cannot be separate but equal schooling for people of color and white people. It said racial segregation of children in schools was unconstitutional.

Chloe LaGrand  3:00

So doing the math quickly here, it’s been over 50 years and a little bit more since this landmark Supreme Court case ruled that you cannot have separate but equal schools. However, segregation still exists in the 20th century. Again, according to history.com, “the term apartheid schools describes still existing largely segregated schools, where whites make up 0 to 10% of the student body. The phenomenon reflects residential segregation in cities and communities across the country, which is not created by overly racial laws, but by local ordinances that target minorities disproportionately” end quote.

Chloe LaGrand  3:43

So to bring us back to nice white parents, the goal of this podcast miniseries was basically to bring attention to the inequalities that still exists in our school systems today. And the kids of color who it really seems to be failing. And nice white parents really outwardly points the finger to exactly that these nice white parents.

Chloe LaGrand  4:12

And I think when when they say nice white parents they’re not talking about these kind of outwardly racist, you know, white people they’re talking about just kind of like the friendly, you know, nice white neighbors next door that

Chloe LaGrand  4:29

are just kind of continuing to work the system in their favor and are just kind of oblivious to it. So, with that being said, and getting us grounded, I’d like to kind of explore this first kind of counter argument to nice white parents.

Chloe LaGrand  4:44

there were two publications that were pretty strongly set against nice white parents and the approach that they took to this podcast and that was fox.

Chloe LaGrand  4:56

foxnews was one of them that was pretty outwardly opposing and and also the publication medium.com.

Chloe LaGrand  5:05

They claimed nice white parents podcast was, quote, “disjointed and disillusioned”. So what these two publications were kind of arguing is that education is, is really kind of locationally based, um

Chloe LaGrand  5:21

you know, nice white parents is really emphasizing that it’s the parents fault and pointing the finger at these nice white parents. But, you know, they’re kind of tying it back to history. coms point that most segregation in schools is not a result of overly racial laws or overly racial, you know, racist people, but kind of a local ordinances that are targeting housing and minorities disproportionately. um

Chloe LaGrand  5:49

And so I think that the point that these publications are making here is not to be discredited. And in fact, I think that this is perhaps where nice white parents fall short the most, is, they really seem to leave out this part of it, they point the finger at these nice white parents, and they they don’t, you know, include any information or, or cause that it could be a deeper issue, and how um you know,

Chloe LaGrand  6:16

how people’s location and where they’re living also greatly affects the school that they’re sending their kids to, and the resources that these schools then are going to have.

Chloe LaGrand  6:27

Now, the second,

Chloe LaGrand  6:30

the second kind of review that I would like to unpack is from vulture.com. And they were a lot more nice about their review of nice white parents. And they were, I think, a little bit more in agreeance, of what they were trying to say. um

Chloe LaGrand  6:45

vulture kind of thought that the way the New York Times went about this podcast miniseries offered a fresh look of kind of the unequal system, and how really the system has been preserved by, you know, the groups who are benefiting the most from it. um

Chloe LaGrand  7:05

And even when we might think they mean well, and they, they’re,

Chloe LaGrand  7:10

they’re kind of

Chloe LaGrand  7:12

They’re meaning well, but they’re, they’re inhibiting the progress of other students.

Chloe LaGrand  7:18

And I really liked this quote, from their review is, you know, part of reshaping the narrative is up to the white parents themselves. And according to vulture activism, led by non white people will never be the same as led by white people. And so that really just kind of says, just how much influence these, you know, white people can have in the system. And, and I think that is part of what nice white parents was trying to really uncover for their their viewers, and perhaps even urged these white parents and white viewers listening that, you know, you guys are part of the problem, too, you might not be outwardly racist, you might not be, you know, outwardly trying to do anything, but by being oblivious to it, you are enabling the system to keep working in your favor, and to disproportionately affect, you know, minorities and other people of color.

Chloe LaGrand  8:18

So, it’s, it’s up to the privileged group to help out the underprivileged group. And I think this is a common theme that we’ve we’ve seen, and we’ve examined throughout our class as well.

Chloe LaGrand  8:32

I thought it was kind of important to unpack this review by vulture. Because,

Chloe LaGrand  8:39

you know, they agreed that hey, it’s maybe it’s time for the white privileged people to, to step up and, and kind of open their eyes and be aware that, hey, the system works in my favor, maybe I can make an impact to help it work for everyone equally, as opposed to just using it to my advantage. And I think that that was what nice white parents was trying to do also in their podcasts was trying to just broadcast this message that, you know, the privilege group it’s kind of up to you guys to to help out the underprivileged. But a lot of them don’t necessarily realize it so they needed to be told. And I think that’s why nice white parents was titled this and I think that was kind of the underlying message that they probably hope to really get out.

Chloe LaGrand  9:32

And so the last review I would like to talk about today is Forbes. So Forbes, weighted into the conversation.

Chloe LaGrand  9:40

And they, they they agree with some nice white parents. They also, you know, kind of brought back to what I was talking about earlier with with Fox and medium is they don’t necessarily think white parents are the root cause of

Chloe LaGrand  9:55

Education and equalities.

Chloe LaGrand  9:58

And so Forbes took kind of a different view, a different stance on this. And they basically said that, you know, the problem is most American schools are really working only for kids who already are advantaged in their home life.

Chloe LaGrand  10:14

So, we’re left with an education system that works, okay for students who have the support at home, but fails, students who don’t. So if you have the home life where you know, you’re going home, and you have you know, your mom or your dad or someone to sit there and help you with your homework and read with you at night, and you know, enrolls you in summer reading programs and continued learning throughout the school year and throughout the summer, then you’re going to have an automatic leg up, than the kid who, you know, maybe their parents work a night shift, and they don’t have helped doing their homework and maybe they don’t have the support or the the tools and resources necessary to you know, continue reading and continuing to get that education outside of the classroom.

Chloe LaGrand  11:04

So I think to really tie everything all together,

Chloe LaGrand  11:09

we see that we we can’t ignore the chain effect that this, you know, unequal schooling inherently causes, which is kids are often set up with unequal opportunities, you know, those who have an advantage, home life and those who, you know, we realize like location matters and often impacts the school and if you have a privileged life at home, or you are, you know, living in a good location, then you’re going to have an automatic leg up over over other people. So we start our lives in unequal positions. And to bring this kind of to, you know, the types of in justices that this displays I think that it’s it’s racism, but it’s also classism, you know, it’s it’s kind of giving privileged people that automatic um

Chloe LaGrand  12:01

leg up over, over underprivileged people.

Chloe LaGrand  12:06

So, overall, I think nice white parents was a podcast that was meant to make people feel uncomfortable, and it was meant to cause you know, the specific target of white people who we’re talking about, to really think about their influence and power that they can bring to any situation and, and make them maybe rethink what impact they could have in trying to make a more equal system for everyone.

Chloe LaGrand  12:33

Nice white parents did a good, good job unpacking the school segregation and inequality issue from one angle. But as we’ve seen today, that there is a lot to this issue. It’s not just the white parents, it’s, it goes a lot deeper than that. And it’s a lot more embedded into our unequal system. You know, it’s racism, it’s classism, and at the end of the day, it’s

Chloe LaGrand  12:58

it’s a lot deeper than just white parents.

Chloe LaGrand  13:04

And so I think that’s where we’ll end our conversation today, today. So, again, my name is Chloe. Chloe LaGrand. Thank you for listening. If you have any questions or comments and you want to keep talking about this, feel free to reach out to me. Have a good day.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

 

Resources

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliewexler/2020/07/30/nice-white-parents-arent-the-root-cause-of-education-inequities/?sh=5092fed64846

https://www.vulture.com/article/nice-white-parents-podcast-review.html

https://mashable.com/article/nice-white-parents-serial-podcast-review/

https://www.foxnews.com/media/new-york-times-backlash-nice-white-parents-podcast

https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/review-of-nice-white-parents-podcast-disjointed-and-disillusioned-4e8cd05bc714

https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/segregation-united-states#section_9

https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/brown-v-board-of-education-of-topeka

DSI Showcase: Nice White Parents Uncover School Systemic Injustices

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Over the past several weeks, I listened to the podcast Nice White Parents, which discusses the influence and power white parents have on the school system and the systemic, unequal opportunities students have for success.

Brown v Board of Education declared segregated public schools were unconstitutional. Over half a century later, we still see inequalities (see School Segregation Still Exists). NWP explores the notoriously segregated New York school system, specifically the story of an influx of white kids who decide to attend a traditionally underprivileged school in Brooklyn. When white parents wanted something, they got it. White parents showed up with donors, fundraisers, and ways to transform a school as marketable to other white parents.

White parents first arrived to the School for International Studies (SIS) with the expectation they could create a dual-language French program. The new group of white parents was led to SIS by fellow parent Rob, who encouraged others to send their child to school at SIS with this promise. For this to occur, funding would be necessary. Rob, who worked in fundraising, along with other new parents set up a gala to obtain funding. The PTA parents were upset as these new parents walked in, started fundraising and making changes without consulting the original PTA committee. This dynamic can relate to Spivak’s subaltern theory. White parents arrive and start making changes giving the original group of parents very little – if any– power to contribute. White parents pushed their agenda as if the other parents were mute. While circumstances are drastically different, you can see a similar dynamic when missionaries arrive to foreign places and enforce their customs onto locals. SIS had a way of running before white parents showed up, but they’re here now with money & additional resources belittling the power of the original parents.

This podcast caused me to re-evaluate the schools I attended growing up. My elementary school was almost all white and came from neighborhoods of mid to upper-class socioeconomic status. Of the two middle schools in our system, there was the ‘ghetto’ and ‘non-ghetto’ school. What made one ghetto vs. non-ghetto was the socioeconomic status of students which impacted what part of town they came from.

A theme consistent with NWP in my own community is the power of reputation. NWP makes their argument clear: white parents can make or break a school. Where white students go, others follow and so does money. This holds true for my elementary school. Reputation is huge. Families aggressively try to live within the school zones and currently face overcrowding accommodate the influx of families moving in.

The path to success is easier for some than others depending on what socioeconomic status you belong to which directly impacts opportunities you have. The inequality in schools is one part of an unequal system that seeps into other aspects of life created by the money you have to buy opportunities to success.

Nice White Parents is published by Serial Productions, a New York Times Company. If you are curious to learn about this topic, I encourage you to listen to Nice White Parents for free through Apple Podcast or Spotify.