Mentoring East Asian Women Scientists and Engineers — Presentation from Karen Mancl

Enrico Bonnello: I’m a Professor in Plant Pathology and have been here for 16 years now. I’ve mentored several of my colleagues through the years.

Hazel Morrow Jones: I did not have a lot of experience being mentored, but as a faculty member I mentored a lot of students and some of my junior colleagues. As Director of the Women’s Place, I saw a lot of faculty who were in crisis mode.

Please don’t assume that you do or do not know all kinds of things. Sometimes you may think “I ought to know that, everyone else does!” But that’s probably not true. It’s okay to ask! That could be anything from how P&T works, to how to teach a lecture class, to anything.

Mentoring is not a one way thing. It’s a back and forth between two people. You should show the mentor what they will gain from you. I ask people, “Would you be a mentor?” and people say “Oh I couldn’t, I don’t know enough,” but you’ve gotten this far by knowing what you do and that is helpful to people!

Most importantly: everyone says you should have a mentor. Sit and think clearly about what you want from a mentor. It’s not a silver bullet. It doesn’t automatically make you successful. Think about who you know and what you want from that. It’s okay to have a lot of mentors. You may have one for teaching, one for support, one who can critique grants. Think about what you want from it and don’t limit yourself. They don’t have to be from your own unit or even your own college.

Set boundaries and talk about expectations from both sides so you both know what you’re getting into to.

The word mentor sound daunting, like you need to be perfect and it will take a lot of your time. But it’s okay to meet up just a few times to talk about teaching, or ask them if they would look over a grant.

Karen Mancl: I was the first woman hired in our department. A project I came up with was to explore mid-carrier low productivity. People in the department are tenured, mid-career, and you don’t do much. So I decided to study that. I learned that a lot of this low productivity was set up with the way they were mentored. So I’ve been involved in developing new mentoring models that keep people productive.

The minority group I have been working with are East Asian women. Mentoring is not an Asian concept. It’s not a part of their career development. It’s very western. So if you bring someone in your program and they come from a culture that doesn’t have experience mentoring then they are at a disadvantage.

The challenges in mentoring are two fold: one is cross gender because not only are East Asian women a minority, women are a minority in science and engineering. And also cross race mentoring…

We gathered data through oral histories and interviewed six women from different colleges. We asked them if the programs developed for mentoring women and minorities are effective.

Transition to minority status: these East Asian women were not minorities at home, but they had essentially no mentoring while in Asia. Because of this, these women are very independent and rely heavily on advice from friends.

In most of these departments, they were told by their department chair that they needed to have mentors.

Women mentors can be role models and can provide psycho-social mentoring about handling issues outside of work.

Five out of six of the interviewees found women mentors, but three had to find them outside of their department.

The most important thing we found within mentoring was goal setting. Setting long-term goals and personal missions. A goal is not getting tenure, it is just a step along the way.

Recommendations:

1. Assign mentors
2. If you set up a mentoring team, let at least one mentor be a woman
3. Include work/life balance
4. Strategic planning and goal setting

Enrico B.: In my department we’re now moving towards a more structured process. We expect the committee to meet with a mentee formally.

Question: What do units and departments do to help build the skills needed to be a mentor?

 

Karen M.: How I start out, for the first six months we develop their long term planning by meeting once a month. Then it backs off to once or twice a quarter or so.

One of my mentees said that I gave them a lot of energy after we met. Other mentors make me feel like I have a lot of stuff I need to do.

Hazel M.J.: It’s so easy for a mentor to fall into the trap of giving very general advice… Ex: “you need to publish more,” so it’s helpful to have someone who helps sort out the specifics of your plan.

Enrico B.: I have informal discussions with mentees all the time. We get lunch together to discuss issues. From my perspective I’m concerned about mentees burning out. They are focused on the fear of failing at tenure. So sometimes I have to tell them to do a little less.

Karen M.: I started mentoring when I was an untenured assistant professor. I’ve also mentored people who are older than me or who have more experience. It’s more typical, but that’s not necessarily a requirement.

Hazel M.J.: There are informal mentoring opportunities like peer to peer, etc.

Question: There are a lot of ramifications for new graduate students coming from Asia who don’t have mentoring. Do you have any advice?

Karen M.: Once they have the opportunity to have a mentor and learn how powerful it can be they really take off. You just need to be more transparent about it. When I inform people that they are my mentor, they look surprised. You need to be formal at the beginning

There were two big worries when the protege was East Asian: one is that they’re going to bother the mentor because the mentor is so busy, but no. I tell them that they need to come to me and set up a lunch to let me know what they need.

Another fear is that they will be taken advantage of by the mentor. They think of it as being an assistant and they will be doing all their work.

I have to open thing up so that people know they can talk to me about their personal life, etc.

Enrico B.: Ultimately your ability to mentor is tied to just being on your job and your life experience.

In our program we’re establishing annual retreats for our graduate students that have professionals regarding stress and mental health. Basically put yourself in the person’s shoes.

Karen M.: We asked our interviewees who helped them make their decisions to go to school, etc., but it was always their friends or they figured it out on their own. It wasn’t their teachers, etc. because of the culture in East Asia.

Question: What is the difference between advising and mentoring?

Hazel M.J.: A post doc should have additional mentors besides just the advisor. Figure out what kinds of things you want to talk to people about and hear thoughts from … Advisors may be good contacts to help set you up with people. 

 

Karen M.: In order to be productive in reaching your personal goals you need a balanced core. There are four components to this and only one is your career, the other three fall into psycho-social mentoring. One is family, what are your goals and objectives for your family? The second is your part in a community, what is your vision of yourself in your community (a.k.a. your social life)? What strategies do you need to develop? The third is yourself. This is the part that is most neglected. In terms of health and well being, appearance, exercise, etc. in terms of being the kind of person you want to appear and the kind of person you want to be yourself.

I talk to my proteges to see if these areas are balanced.

Enrico B.: There’s a tendency to put enormous pressure on your career, so I do try to present them with a strong sense of balance. It’s critical. But young faculty feel like they cannot take any time off this extreme focus on productivity and “making it” as a faculty member. It’s difficult to convince them that they won’t be losing anything.

Karen M.: When you have that balanced core you’re much more productive. A good test is if you go home and complain about work something is out of balance.

Hazel M.J.: Some of our senior faculty may not believe in this work-life balance and thus that is why seniority doesn’t always make the best mentors.

Question: If there is already a culture of that, how do we begin t o let people know that it is okay to have a balance? How do you shift the culture so that it can be work life balance?

Karen M.: Whether or not you get tenure is not important to me. As long as you make progress on your goals and mission in life. If you’re not doing that, then that is a failure. Seem of my protégées have left Ohio State because they have found that they aren’t in the right job.

Hazel M.J.: Having a good culture as a whole, working on policies and procedures, getting people to understand that everyone is a human being and they have a life and will work best when there is a balance.

So when a full professor has to go home because their child is sick, not giving them a problem about it because that is what you should do and that is okay.

The university’s policy is taking time off the tenure clock for birth of a child. In some departments that’s okay, in other departments some people are afraid to use it because they are worried about what others will think.

Question: Do you have a lot of information or fact sheet about mentoring?

Karen M.: I did start writing a series of fact sheets.

Question: What should the mentee be doing?

Karen M.: When I first started this research, the predominant mentoring model was climbing the model to success. That particular mentoring model came out of the 1950s industrial movement, finding the rising stars and helping them get to the top as fast as possible.

Then in the 1980s, it was the balancing work and family model for women and men who should DO IT ALL.

My mentoring model: instead of it being a climb or having a big plate you have to balance, mine is when you’re young, strong and talented you’re not at the bottom of the mountain you’re at the top! You have so many opportunities! I ask, where do you want to leave your legacy? Then we write a mission and look at those four core values looking at your vision for each area. You’re not burdened by a climb, you’re accumulating things, relationships, contacts, projects etc.

Sometimes you get bumped off track and you’re not rolling in the right direction, but we meet and get back on track. Even when you’re not accumulating or things are getting slower, you’re still rolling.

Most people don’t know their mission because no one asked them.

Hazel M.J.: Has any one refused to do this or come up with a mission for their life?

Karen M.: Yes, this person disappeared for awhile and wasn’t ready, but they did come back… Some people just want you to tell them what to do: How do I get tenure, etc?

Enrico B.: It’s important to choose your mentor as someone you can talk to and have an actual conversation with rather than just getting instructions from. I have a general idea of what it takes to be “successful.”

Karen M.: A lot of people are pushed into their jobs by well-meaning adults at a young age… “You need to do this or that, you can’t do this because you’re a girl,” etc. So when preparing our five year plan, it becomes clear that they are on the wrong path. Our focus becomes preparing them to make a move.

 

Enrico B.: The informal conversations are the spark for formal, deeper conversations.

Hazel M.J.: I don’t think there are short cuts with human relationships. Why are we in such a hurry?

Enrico B.: Even if I tell some of my mentees to have a balance and take it easy, I don’t know if they will listen to me. All we can do is keep saying it. Many young professionals feel guilty if they don’t fill every minute of every day working

Hazel M.J.: And, at the same time, are carrying guilt for the things they are not doing at home or spending time with their family.