Transacript
Zhang: Hello, I am Nan Zhang and I would like to do the podcast by myself. But I have invited one guest Nini also from China, but Nini was immigrated in the USA for several years. We will conduct the conversation on the topic related with racism via zoom.

Zhang: When talking about systematic injustice and the topic related with racism. First, I would like to talk about my experience in USA or my past experience travelling to Europe to talk about the issue of racism from the perspective of an Asian, especially from China. To be honest, before coming to the USA, I always thought that USA was a melting pot that could tolerate different people. But at that time, I might also have some worry about racism, for I read lots of books about racism in the USA. Hence, I am so worried. Fortunately, in the beginning, everything was all right for me and it seems that I was nothing different from others. But I am not sure if I am too sensitive or not. Sometimes I felt that I suffered from the racism from others who did not show their despise on the face directly but silently.

Zhang: I still remember that when I joined a French course and I was the only student in the class. To be honest, I felt that I might be like an outsider sometimes. All the classmates were white Americans and it seems that I was too shy to involve in the class. Fortunately, I met one nice girl in the class. But every time when the French teacher asked us to answer problems or used words to make sentences, she always did not know how to pronounce my Chinese family name, which makes me really awkward. All the whole class laughed sometimes and I was so so embarrassed at that time. The French teacher also said sometimes oh I could never pronounce your family name. I seldom correct her, but it made me so awkward and I did not continue my French learning because of the experience.

Zhang: For me, racism might not be shown directly, but the indirect racism makes people like me suffer from much harm. I am not that kind of extrovert person and I am quite sensitive to the concept of racism. The other experience about racism was that one time when I travelled to Europe in Germany, one person shouted at me in the street that “going back to China and stopped making Germany dirty”. I was quite surprised and embarrassed, but I did not say anything. But since then, I did not have any mood to travel any more.

Zhang:Ok, that’s my experience about racism in other countries. How about you? Nini, do you have experienced that?

Nini: Wow, definitely. It is so memorable. Especially since the outbreak of the pandemic, I truly under the concept of racism. I remembered last year when the coronavirus was so popular, I sincerely felt that. One time I walked in the street, three kids pointed at me and said virus. Wow, I was also quite embarrassed and angry. What was more surprising is that those kids showed their racism so directly and I think they must be under the influence of their parents. It made me angry at that moment. You know, in fact, it is not the virus that made me scared, but it is the bias and prejudices that made me fear.

Zhang: Wow, I think I also experience that. Since the pandemic, I always cared about how others in the USA or other countries look at others. I did not encounter such condition, but it seems that the look from some whites in fact enables me to feel about racism. But I knew that you have lived in the USA for a long time. Do you think that the problem and anti-sentiments against Asians especially Chinese is only a recent event or a long-time tradition?

Nini: Well, it is quite a complicated issue. I think it is a long-time issue. Asian migration is shaped by both the economic imperatives of our country and the political questions of Asian belonging in the United States. I thought that it might trace back to the 19th century. At that time, China was in Qing Dynasty, but lots of people from China were sold or came to the USA to work for the railroad. As a racialized form of docile and compliant labor, Asian immigrants are welcomed into the workforce. However, when these same immigrants seek the right to citizenship and belonging, their racial difference often rubs against U.S. nationalism that is premised on white dominance. But I think the racism against Asian is always accompanied by xenophobic discourses of Asians as a foreign threat, whether it is economic and biomedical.

Zhang: I also read the story and never thought about the issue of racism. In the past, in fact, it is not so impressive for me. But the pandemic really brought up this kind of personal and vile and very vicious attack. But usually crimes are shown in invisible way. When you talked about the history, I suddenly think of the Chinese Exclusion Act and the Japanese internment camps. But you have lived in the USA for a long time, do you think that you are dealing personally with the level of anti-Asian racism that has come to the surface?

Nini: I think every Asian should experience something with it. We’ve seen Asian supermarkets, not just Chinese supermarkets, that are full [of goods] and not getting patronage. My friend had a man point to her on the subway, saying she was the cause of this virus spreading. I feel like we are all being hit by it right now. It’s hard and scary to be out in public. There are a lot of people who moved to America and have never faced this level of racism in their 40 to 50 years of living here.

Zhang: I see. But I think social media or media plays a crucial role in leading to racism against Asians. Take the example of coronavirus as an example. At the point where the epidemic was beginning to spread beyond China, the mainstream media focused on the Chinese government’s failure to contain the Coronavirus. In January 2020, with the appearance of the first cases among Chinese migrants and tourists in mainland France, a flow of racist speech began to be witnessed in news media and on social networks. The words ‘pangolin’ and ‘bat’ are very frequently used and connected with a point of origin in China, insinuating that the Chinese are responsible for the pandemic because of poor hygiene and our exotic culinary habits.

Nini: I agree with you. The main stream press should be responsible for that. I think the media always tend to neglect us or make stereotyped impressions on us. They’ll do stories about Chinatown in places where most people don’t live in Chinatowns. They’ll go to the same spokespersons all the time rather than get real people’s perspectives. The hard thing is talking to people in their language, so they can be more eloquent and more well-spoken. That’s the hard thing—not having enough language access to the community. Not having the reporters, and not even trying to have the reporters try to get access, because the reporters are so rushed and they have to find people who can speak right away. For example, someone asked me, “Can I speak to someone who’s been a victim of anti-Asian violence?”If I said yes. The press will speak again. Well, yeah, but they’re hesitant and they’re scared.

Zhang: Well, do you think that the recent Asian campaign in the USA will make Chinese successful like that of Black Americans?

Nini: To be honest, I am quite pessimistic about that. I think Asians especially Chinese Americans do not have such strong determination like that of African Americans. I think it might be something related with Confucian culture that asked us to tolerate everything. For instance, in China we might tolerate lots of unfair things and lots of Americans come to the USA, we also tolerate everything and never consider striking hard to get freedom with strong determination. It is quite sad but it is true that Chinese people might not have such strong minds of democracy and freedom like other races. We are told to obey the rule and just listen and follow the rules. But in China we are never told to rebel against the unfair things such as systematic injustice. It is really sad but it is true.
Zhang: Wow, your analysis is in-depth and I totally agree with you. Unless one day Chinese people have strong minds on the concept of democracy and freedom. Otherwise, I do not think that Asian Americans work hard for fighting against racism hard. But let’s have hope in the future.

Nini: Sure.I also hope so.

Zhang:Well, thanks so much. Nini. Here is all our pod talk. Goodbye everyone.