Morrison and Spivak write about similar things, yet in very different manners. The common theme I see in both texts refer to how people are racist, classist and severely shaped by the class based hierarchy that society has created. In Morrison’s text, the character Twyla has been impacted by the social system from a young age. She was put in Saint Bronny’s orphanage by her mother, and she quickly became friends with a girl(whose mother was sick) by the name of Roberta. Although at a young age both of their voices were “suppressed” this changed in the future. Twyla and Roberta were pushed apart even further by the class system. Twyla was a working class individual, while Roberta lived a lavish life. As the story progressed, their characters’ ideologies furthered from each other as well. The two do not seem to see eye to eye on social and racial issues, and seem to be on opposite ends of the spectrum. Their lives become segregated from one another in a sense. Spivak speaks on the class system throughout this passage. One example of this is on page 26 when she speaks about the “elite”.
One present day example of the classism and segregation shown in both Morrison’s and Spivak’s text would be the caste system in southeast asian countries. The most well known example of the caste system would be India’s, although many other countries(like Nepal) have an almost identical system. On paper, these systems have been abolished, but many families and ethnic groups are still affected by these systems. Women especially are still disproportionately impacted by the antique beliefs most of southeast asia has. Spivak stated “ of the intellectuals. It is well known that the notion of the feminine (rather than the subaltern of imperialism) has been used in a similar way within deconstructive criticism and within certain varieties of feminist criticism. In the former case, a figure of ‘woman’ is at issue, one whose minimal predication as indeterminate is already available to the phallocentric tradition(Pg 28)”. Women to this day in these countries do not have many basic rights that their male counterparts have. When researching the caste system, I learned that often kids can grow up together, but their adult lives are extremely different due to their last names. “There she was. In a silvery evening gown and dark fur coat. A man and another woman were with her, the man fumbling for change to put in the cigarette machine. The woman was humming and tapping on the counter with her fingernails. They all looked a little bit drunk(Pg 16)”. This part of the text illustrates how even though children can grow up together their lives can turn out completely opposite.
“What Is India’s Caste System?” BBC News, BBC, 19 June 2019, www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-35650616.
When reading about Spivak and Morrison’s work, it’s important to acknowledge that the issues present in the readings are present in our society today. With the example that you provided, I think that fulfills the category of being in a subaltern. I think another example of a subaltern would be the African American population in the United States. They are faced with systematic injustices daily, and are still oppressed in society. With the Black Lives Matter marches and protests, people want their voices to be heard and try to eliminate the subaltern group that is present.
This was a great presentation, and I especially enjoyed that you brought to attention how different ethnic groups and women are still affected greatly in countries like India and Nepal. Treating these groups of people as unequal creates an unfair system where they will never get the chance to work their way our of their current situations. While the circumstances in these countries are much worse, I believe the United States still has many problems with racism and sexism. Minorities and women are often not given equal opportunities as the majority (white men) even in America. People often develop subconscious biases towards minorities which eventually leads to unfair treatment, even if it is unintentional. Society must actively work to be aware of these biases and focus on eliminating them to create a society where people receive equal opportunities despite their race, gender, or sexual orientation.
I found this presentation very well put. Mainly the last sentence, which truly tied everything together: “even though children can grow up together their lives can turn out completely opposite”. This sentence really hits home, and I find it to be something huge that should be more commonly known. By having this as a first hand experience, it is a common misconception that each child with a common background will turn out the same. When, in fact, outside sources play many roles in the common classist assumption on orphans. Something I hope anyone that reads my comment picks up from the reading is the classist assumption on orphans, relate it to present time, it happens all around.
I found your presentation to be very interesting and extremely thought provoking. The way in which you connect the readings to modern classist and racist issues speaks to the depth of the issues that both Morrison and Spivak were discussing in their work years ago. Specifically when you talk about the suppression of Twyla and Robertas voices at a young age, I think it is important to note the way in which Morrison emphasized this changing the young girls long term. This point, in conjuncture with your closing statement really emphasize the point that there are deeply seeded discriminatory issues that shape people for their entire lives, in turn shaping society and what is consider a “social norm”.
What a great presentation! I didn’t know much about the caste system, and I feel like you gave a good overview of it. I especially found the section where you said that the system was technically abolished, but still exists socially because I think that that idea has a lot of application in modern America. This is especially true regarding the treatment of black people in America: when slavery was abolished, people believed American racism was over. After the civil rights movement, people once again felt as though the problem was entirely resolved. This is obviously still not true and this kind of fixed mindset is harmful
I wish you would have spoken more in your first paragraph because it was so well said. The writing shows that kids of different races can be friends even though society doesn’t want it that way. The kids were friends before they grew up and realized that the color of their skin made them different from each other, even though their childhood friendship proves that wrong. I liked how you also brought up the socioeconomic differences even though the piece could’ve been easily overpowered by the racial aspect. I felt it was easy to compare your point about the class system in Southeast Asia to racial tension in America today. While both the class system of India and the segregation of America have been lawfully abolished, the effects of the systems are still being felt today.
I enjoyed reading your perspectives and how your brought in the discussions of caste and class systems. Some would say the entire world has a caste system that correlates to race and economic class. In India and throughout the world we can see that the darker a persons skin is, the more likely they are to be in a lower socio-economic class. Early in Morrison’s short story Twyla and Roberta are like Spivaks subalterns, as they are poor orphan children with little voice in society. Even among the orphans “nobody wants to play with us because we weren’t real orphans with beautiful dead parents in the sky. We were dumped. Even the New York City Puerto Ricans and the upstate Indians ignored us” (Morrison p.2). As the story goes along the girls grow into societal roles with a growing divide of one and the other. As you point out, by the end, Twyla and Roberta live very different lives.
I really enjoyed this context presentation. I’d say that I have fairly limited knowledge of the caste system. However, I enjoyed how you mentioned the presence of the caste system in modern day society as well as how it impacts women. Initially, I found it surprising that the caste system had technically been abolished, but that families are still affected by it today, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that is similar to a lot of situations present in today’s society. A systematic injustice could have been abolished decades ago, but it will still impact the generations that follow it. I knew that the caste system was a good example of classism and sexism, but I did not consider the fact that its effects are still impacting the people. Overall, I thought this was a very well written presentation, that opened my eyes to an issue that I did not realize was still so prominent today.
The effects of racism and classism are definitely two key points of Spivak and Morrison’s pieces. In “Recitatif”, Roberta and Twyla start off their relationship in the orphanage together, and there is very little class awareness between the two girls as children, until their mothers come to see them and it becomes apparent that there is some social divisions between the girls. As they get older and have a few run-ins with each other it only becomes more apparent that there are social divisions between them. In their brief interactions, it is apparent that Roberta is wealthier and Twyla belongs to a working class. I have briefly studied the caste system in India in one of my sociology classes, and the differences in class in India are very strong and have a significant impact on the outcome of a person’s life all based on what family they were born into. This is an interesting perspective to put on the relationships in Morrison’s piece. There is a difference in class between Twyla and Roberta, made especially clear at the end of the story when they meet in the diner. However they come together to bond over their shared childhood experience in the orphanage.
I really enjoyed reading your presentation! I thought it was structured very well and gave great examples. I am not very knowledgeable on former and current caste systems and I when you wrote about people growing up together then living completely different lives with different views, it struck home! I can relate to this in some ways. I had a best friend that I was very close with from kindergarten to my senior year and as we got older I could see that her privilege would sometimes get the best of her. She started to become very focused on tangible things and cared about her parent’s money too much. I think you are right when you said that if this caste system was abolished, that it would still socially effect people for generations after. Overall, nice job on your presentation!
Being of indiant decent I definelty understand the significance of the caste system in India and it presence currently. The issue with the caste system is that even though it may seem like an injustice to the western world, it stems from religious and cultural beliefs in India, and because of this it has been very hard to overcome. Religion especially Hindusim is a big ideal in India which can explain the significance of the caste system. The lower class of India tend to be descendants of the people who belonged in the lower caste. It wasn’t possible to move around in the caste system. You were basically born into a certain caste that would determine your future.
Hello, I believe and agree that just because you grow up with a person does not mean that you have the same life in the end. Twyla could not understand why her friend was upset because her children had to go to a different school. She did not understand because she did not see the racial problem with because it was not a problem in her life because she was not treated poorly because of her race. There are a lot of racial and sexist problems around the world that people need to look into more to be apart of the change. A person should be able to work their way up to be in a better “class”. People should have to work for things and not just get it handed to them because of family members. Great work!