“Yo, is this Ableist?” Podcast: Will Palmer, Lauren Kreinbrink, Owen Lewis

 

Transcript:

Owen Lewis  0:02

On tonight’s episode of “yo is this…?” we’re going to be tackling two very intense issues that plague modern day society; ableism and ageism. I am Owen Lewis, a theoretical mathematics major at The Ohio State University.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  0:20

And I’m Lauren Kreinbrink, also at The Ohio State University, and my major is human nutrition.

 

Will Palmer  0:27

And I am Will Palmer also a student at The Ohio State University majoring in finance.

 

Owen Lewis  0:33

Fantastic, guys. So, I figured I’d start off by telling you to both a story of a moment that really deeply impacted me. So basically, my girlfriend lives up in Cleveland, and commuting back and forth I take the Greyhound bus station a lot. On a Greyhound, you will meet some incredibly, incredibly interesting people, and I’ll put it that way. And anyone who’s ridden the Greyhound probably knows what I mean.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  0:48

Oh yeah

 

Will Palmer 0:49

Definitely

 

Owen Lewis 0:52

But essentially, one moment that I had that really, really struck me, and I didn’t realize how significant it was when it happened, but I thought about it a lot since. Essentially I stood in this long waiting line, and I got my ticket and I went to go sit down and wait for my bus when I heard this employee, just absolutely berating this guy. Uh this customer came up in line, and I couldn’t really tell what was going on. But she was she was screaming ,like, lots of profanity, like, I don’t know how necessarily NSFW I want to get with my language on the podcast, but she was just saying some really, really terrible things to him. And so me being a sleazy snoop of a human being decided to listen to their conversation. While I was listening, I realized that the man was actually like, uh, mentally challenged, and he was struggling to communicate with her. And I mean, there was a long line, and it was clear that she was trying to keep things moving, the employee, but she was just being absolutely terrible to this guy, and just almost even making fun of him. It was really uncomfortable, and I didn’t really know what to do in the moment. So I didn’t end up doing anything. And it, it ended up getting resolved or whatever. But I just thought that was a really gross example of ableism.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  2:30

No, of course, and I also, if I was in that situation, I think I’d be very uncomfortable, I wouldn’t really know how to act for sure.

 

Will Palmer  2:38

It’s just one of those situations, I feel like for the worker, like a little bit of patience just goes such a long way. And just trying to like look at the situation holistically, and thinking like, what could I do to better help this person? Rather? Like how rude do I have to be to get them to get my point across so that I can get this line moving? Like all you have to do is have a little bit of patience to work that out.

 

Owen Lewis  3:00

Yeah, exactly. And it’s just, it’s so frustrating. Because I mean, I know what it’s like to be working a job you hate and to, like, get frustrated at customers and that kind of thing. But it just shows like a really complete, lack of empathy and lack of care. And-

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  3:15

yeah, and honestly yelling at anybody like that, like regardless of kind of what they’re going through, or how they identify or really any characteristics like you can’t treat people like that regardless.

 

Owen Lewis  3:28

Yeah! Uh, it was, it was messed up. And I don’t know, I guess I’ve never really like, I don’t know, I think while we were doing this kind of assignment in this diary, I felt especially inclined to, like pay attention to the world around me. But I’ve never really noticed, such a blatant example of like ableism and someone just being like, so discriminatory, you know?

 

Lauren Kreinbrink 3:49

For sure.

 

Will Palmer  3:52

I feel like a lot of ableism is like, microaggressions, like a lot of vocabulary, like when people are like, Oh, you know,  that guy’s crazy. Like, okay, I get what you’re saying. But please don’t say that. Because, you know, he might. Somebody could take offense to that. Or if they say “Oh she’s psycho” or even like, if you see someone that’s like disabled, and some people just want to be nice, and they’re like, Oh, you know, can I pray for you? Like, don’t assume that they need to be fixed. Like that’s ablest within itself, a lot of ableism I feel like it’s just microaggressions.

 

Owen Lewis  4:27

*Snapping fingers* Yeah, shit, I’m snapping at that,  that was- It’s just so true. And I don’t know, I guess like, I have, I have a number of friends who are like on the autism spectrum and struggle with like being verbally impaired. And it was just really striking imagining that they could have this happen and it probably does happen to them on, I don’t know, on a daily or weekly basis. It’s just something that I I’m never exposed to.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  4:55

Yeah, actually in my nutrition classes past week. We’re studying like autism. Just borders. And in the United- in the world, really, it’s one out of 54 (people)  experience it. So it is very common. And a lot of times, depending where you are on the spectrum, like, it may not be noticeable or, it just it affects everyone differently. So everyone just really needs to be careful on, really how you treat everybody.

 

Owen Lewis  5:20

That’s crazy. 1 out of 54? I had no idea. It was that high.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink 5:27

Oh yeah

 

Owen Lewis 5:34

Uh thinking about the situation, I don’t know, just reflecting on it afterwards, really reminded me of the “Can The Subaltern Speak?” text-

 

Lauren Kreinbrink 5:41

Yes.

 

Will Palmer 5:42

Oh absolutely

 

Owen Lewis 5:44

-just like how we were kind of talking about like, these people’s experiences and what they go through, I guess I just realized that, like, I can feel sorry for this man who had to wit- or who had, like, go through this. And I can, like, want to challenge it. But like, I’ll never know what it feels like to be treated like that, you know?

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  6:01

Yeah. And it is like such, especially like the one in 54. Like, depending, depending what someone’s ability to disabilities are. It’s hard to notice. So sometimes, like speaking out for those, that group of people makes them unheard, and it hurts, progression of moving forward of making, like certain accommodations, or really just kind of helping that part of society, um, progress and just, you know, be taken care of, um, and I can’t find the words for it. Just kind of, I think people disregard, disregard that sometimes, and they’re just not as noticeable to the different types of people around them.

 

Will Palmer  6:43

Yeah. I feel like something that could help with that would just be like, I mean, just at least basic training, like on non-discriminatory things, like, especially if you’re going to be working public, like public transit, you should at least have some form of training, at least like I know, like, for my job, like, I work retail, we have training, and we had training on like, implicit bias. So like to be aware of our implicit biases, and like, everything like that, so like, I mean, it starts somewhere. And I feel like training would be like a great foundation to be able to, like, have your workers be more aware, so they can better serve all customers, despite any disability anybody might have.

 

Owen Lewis  7:19

Yeah, and it’s like, it’s obviously an issue with like, the training programs of these positions and these jobs themselves. But I kind of just like exposes an even deeper issue we have with American society, where, I don’t know, I think that as a culture, we’re getting better and we’re evolving, and we’re improving it like seeing the things that are wrong, and seeing the ways that we mistreat people or at least I’d really like to believe that. But I think there’s just still so many people who are so uninformed about just all of the different ways that like, just various issues can manifest. And I don’t know, it’s just like, I feel like an improvement to the general education system would do so much to helping people realize that. I don’t know.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  8:06

Owen that’s a great point. And honestly, like, I think this class, if anything, like the diary of systemic injustice is like, in the beginning, I was like, okay, look for racist things that you’re seeing in society, like on the daily and some of it was hard for me, like, I’m not gonna lie, because I’m just, I’m not used to looking for those discriminatory practices, however, like, the ageism and ableism, like some of those other types of discrimination, have opened my eyes to all these other issues that are in our world that we really don’t consider.

 

Will Palmer  8:37

Yeah I mean, like, it really helped us be like more aware, like you said, of these issues, and I feel like, how are we as a society supposed to combat these issues without first raising awareness? I feel like it was really effective in that sense.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  8:50

Yea. So I actually have a story on myself. I work as a caregiver right now. And I’ve had a client for a few months. She’s great. She was actually an OSU Professor A long time ago. And during a shift change, the other caregiver came in and on her chart before we see any new clients we kind of have to go over, like their treatment, kind of how to care for them. Just anything that you can learn about them to better care. And she was diagnosed with dementia. And it was very early onset, but she was struggling with some stability things as well. So when the new caregiver came in,um, I had just put- I just been cleaning out my client’s house, and he kind of made some comments to me like, Oh, yeah, I’m just gonna put her to bed later, or I’ll put the TV on for her while I finished the cleaning. And this was, this really bothered me, it was very unsettling at first and I couldn’t figure out why. And then I’m like, okay, he, he doesn’t know her. And he’s treating her as if she is dementia, not that she has dementia. And that was kind of an ageism thing to me, which I really haven’t thought about in the past. And he was again, treating her on her disability- with her, what was going on mentally, and it was very dehumanizing. It treated her more as her disease. And this woman is great. I’ve had amazing conversations with her. Again, she has early onset dementia, so she is aware of what’s going on, she just does need a little help. So he, I think that can sometimes be an issue in healthcare that I’ve like started to notice, where even doctors sometimes will come in, look at your chart, go things over really quick, and then kind of leave. And it’s just, it can be a little abusive. And I think it takes away some of the compassion that patients need to be treated with.

 

Owen Lewis  10:40

Yeah, definitely. I think that, I don’t know, I think a lot of like, a lot of the issues in our society, like the stuff that we’ve talked about in this class, like racism, and ableism, and just all of these broader issues are just really, really like, inspired and instigated by the lack of empathy. We’ve promoted in our country, you know, people, people have became so individualized, and they care so much about themselves and their jobs and the money they’re making, that a lot of the time we can forget, as Americans that like, it’s our job to look out for each other, it’s our job to help each other, you know, like, we have an obligation, so not just, us, me, me, me, me, me.

 

Will Palmer  11:24

Absolutely, I feel like that’s something that a lot of people need reminded of, especially like, Lauren what you said about how it can be a kind of a poison to the healthcare system, having people that don’t realize that, and like, don’t have the compassion, because I mean, that’s not a field where you can just have somebody that is not compassionate-

 

Lauren Kreinbrink 11:35

For sure.

 

Will Palmer 11:36

– like, it’s meant to be able to, like, successfully do job on a day to day basis, you got to have some form of compassion and patience.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  11:51

Yeah. And it really reminded me of the concept in class, we’ve been talking about the concept of other, like, this caregiver came in and he kind of put his, his job above the compassion of taking care of her. And it kind of just grouped her into those with mental handicaps, really, like he just he categorized her instead of like treating her as who she was not what she had. So that that was very unsettling to me for sure.

 

Will Palmer  12:22

I’ll treat her like she wasn’t even a human being to some extent.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink 12:37

Mm hmm.

 

Will Palmer 12:38

Absolutely. A great form or a great example of one versus the other, like you said.

 

Owen Lewis  12:33

It really is just, I don’t know, it’s so sad talking about like, in terms of ages, and specifically, these people who probably have such amazing stories and have lived such long lives with so much experience, but we’re so quick to just kind of set them on the sidelines and say like, I don’t know, like, this person’s gone. Like that kind of speech. And that kind of rhetoric just really goes to enforce, like, just these perceptions of these people. Um, so I was curious.Um,  what are some solutions that you guys can think for? Maybe, um, I don’t know, helping to prevent this kind of like malpractice in, in the workplace? Well, I know these people.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  13:20

Oh, well, go ahead.

 

Owen Lewis 13:22

Oh, I was just finishing up. I was just saying. Lauren, take it off.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  13:29

All right. All right. So um, yeah, I think one thing is especially have healthcare professionals, any kind of worker like needs to have that training on specialized training for people dealing with those issues directly related with dementia and Alzheimer’s and other just kind of mental-medical ailments like that. And I actually did have a dementia training, and it really taught me a lot, that dementia doesn’t only affect your memory, it affects your sight, it affects your ability to move. So I think that is something that would really benefit this population who is being cared for by health care?

 

Will Palmer  14:08

Yeah.

 

Owen Lewis  14:08

that’s a great point.

 

Will Palmer  14:10

And with that training really brings a lot of like, awareness that I feel is like, very necessary, people need to be like aware of these microaggressions they need to be aware that like, while somebody might, you know, be- have a disability, or anything like that, you know, like, they’re still a human being, and they deserve to be treated like one. And like with this podcast, for example, like if we can just reach, you know, just one person and like, make them more aware of the situation so that they, at least as a person can help better combat that and I feel like we did a great job, if like just one person. Hopefully we reach way, way, way, way more.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink 14:43

Right.

 

Will Palmer 14:45

But I mean, yeah, I just I feel like it stems or starts with awareness.

 

Owen Lewis  14:50

Yeah, and I think I think building on what you just said, I think it’s, it’s so important that like us in terms of this class, and in terms of this student body at OSU and in terms of really just the whole world, but we don’t get disheartened by these like, big, big tasks, because it’s not like, I don’t know, dismantling ableism is something that we’re all just going to do overnight. It’s something that takes a lot of work. And it takes a lot of effort. And it makes a lot of money of, I don’t know, restructuring establishments, and like you said, like improving these education programs.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  15:28

Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, even I think, with ableism, and ageism, I think, a big solution, we’re all kind of agreeing on his education, like, starting with workers, starting with kind of all of all members of society just kind of on teaching respect, and just overall education on some of these issues. And I think you can really connect ableism and ageism together because, you know, as- as populations get older, their mental, their mental is decreasing. And sometimes they can have physical issues. And that kind of goes into ableism. Like-

 

Owen Lewis  16:11

it’s like these, these issues are so both very deeply entwined, because they share a lot of the same attributes, and that people who get older start to, I don’t know, they have a significantly higher likelihood of becoming disabled. And I think the intersectionality of these two issues is just really, really interesting, because obviously, these issues are so deeply and, like, ingrained with one another. And then we’re not even getting into all of the other ways that these like, intersect with sex and with race and the ways that it’s considerably harder for people of color to get medical treatment in our country. And I don’t know, like all of these issues just really do interact, and they’re not just isolated things.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  17:02

Yeah, I like- I like everything you just said there, Owen. Perfect.

 

Will Palmer Speaker  17:07

Yeah, you exemplified it perfectly.

 

Lauren Kreinbrink  17:12

Well, it was great talking to you guys today. I’m really glad we got a chance to kind of tackle some issues we’ve been seeing in society lately, even giving some examples like I think you- Owen you really open my eyes to this ableism thing. And I’m really grateful that you shared- and Will, you too I loved hearing your input on these subjects.